Vania 1

 I am Vania. I am a transitional deacon at C4SO. I am married to my wonderful husband, and I have two kiddos who are wonderful and keep me busy and on my toes, and I love them so much.

I was ordained in March 2024. Time is really weird after the pandemic, isn't it? So it feels like five years afterwards, we should get into some kind of rhythm. But yeah, so I was ordained March in 2024 into the transitional diaconate.

Yes, absolutely. I think we'll just jump straight into it. Why don't you tell us the story of your call to Holy Orders?

Yes, my call to holy orders is weird and strange and long. And I don't think that is uncommon.  I am fourth generation in ministry. So my great grandfather was ordained. My both of my grandparents, my grandfather and my grandmother were ordained and then both of my parents are ordained. And so all of my life, I knew I did not want to be in ministry. You know, that's probably not what you expected me to say, but I just think like being so involved in all of it, I was like, God, I do not want that. And so my prayer was always, God, I do not want to marry a pastor. Whatever happens Lord, please help me not marry a pastor. And the Lord was so good to me and I did not marry a pastor. My husband is not a pastor at all. 

But I kept hearing the small voice of the Lord, like a nudge from the Spirit,  a call for the local church and the global church. I had done the short-term missions. I had always been voluntold to serve a different parts of the church. And there was such a joy when I was doing all the things. And I kept denying it. I kept saying, no, that's not what I'm supposed to do. I kept declaring different types of majors in college that had nothing to do with ministry because I was like, that is not what I want for me. That is not what I want for my children. Like, I don't want that experience at all.

But, there were several things that happened. I just kept finding myself being in ministry, specifically in church ministry. And so I finally ended up formally applying for a position in the church that my parents were pastoring, and I ended up getting it. And as I was doing the work, I kept thinking, man, I need to get serious about this. Like I can't just be working in this field without being ordained, without doing all of the things. But I kept pushing that feeling aside and aside and aside. And in my prayer life, I kept saying like, God, thank you for helping me not marry a pastor. Still being oblivious to the fact that I am not only actively being called, but I'm also actively working within the ministry, and within what was supposed to be ordained ministry. So it was like a long, long journey and process, an emotional process for me to come to terms with the fact that I was actually doing what he was calling me to. 

My parents stepped down from leadership at the church that they were at and we moved to a different church. I ended up somehow again, working on staff. And when I was invited to work on staff at the new church, which is where we are at now, which is Restoration Abbey, which is a C4SO church, I was given my title and it was pastor of early formation.

And I turned to Alex, who's one of the rectors, and I said, “Alex, I can't have this title because it says pastor and I'm not ordained. I don't really want to be ordained, so I can't have this title.” And he turned around and said, Vanya, you've been a pastoring pastor for a long time.

And I think that was the moment when I was like, it kind of like everything clicked for me.  I was like, man, I have been pastoring for a long time. I've been a pastoring pastor for a long time. I think I need to make this the real deal. I think I need to get officially ordained. Mind you, I had already asked questions about what the ordination process had looked like years and years before, more than once. So it was like already something that was happening in my life, and the curiosity was active in my life. But I finally was ready to admit it to myself and not just say that it was for research purposes or out of curiosity, but rather recognize it as an actual call from the Lord to be under that ordination, the fellowship is what I would call it of ordained ministers, and actually do it officially. So that's like the long and short version of what my call to ministry was like.

Can you tell me a little bit more about the process to discern between your call to the diaconate versus call to the priesthood or was it once you accepted this it was pretty clear that it was a call to the priesthood?

For me, it felt really clear that it was a call to the priesthood. There is such a longing in my heart to have different people serve the Eucharist, different languages, and for it to be something that's so visible in the church that no one can deny that it's a longing of God's people. And so one thing that I kept saying, during that discernment process, like the official ordination discernment process was, I'm happy to have other people do this role,  but I don't see other people like me stepping up to the plate. So for me, it felt like I had to continue to the priesthood.

There is a wonderful calling for vocational deacons and there is a big need for that. But I just kept feeling that nudge of the Lord, even when I was asked in some of my discernment meetings, why the priesthood, I kept thinking something that really  how can I say this? - it felt really cocky to say it. But it felt like the thing that I needed to say was because there needs to be people that look like me in that.

And so, and by that I mean a woman. I mean a Latina. I mean  like a young mother that even though right now I mean whatever that might not be a young mother by the time I get ordained into the priesthood but but like I'm just like I'm thinking like we need more people and if I can help another little girl or little boy see themselves in this role.  What a beautiful privilege. And so, and that answer might be controversial, I understand that, but to answer your question, for me it felt  really obvious. even though I still did formally go through the process of investigating what that, if that was actually of the Lord or if it was just my feeling and my sense.

And also I understand that so much at a heart level. When I was in my discernment process, my big aha moment for the priesthood was whenever I told people that I had never seen a woman of color in a place of leadership in a church and that I was wondering if maybe I'm called to that. And as soon as I said that, there would be this like big light that would come in their eyes and they're like, yes, you are called to this. 

And so I also get the like, you thought it was cocky or arrogant, but it's not, right? Because it's not necessarily about you as Vanya or necessarily me as Juliet, right? But it really is like, there are not many of us right now. And I was doing it for specifically young women of color. I think about like, what would it have been like for young Juliet to see a woman of color in a position of leadership at the church? Like that would have been life-changing, honestly. So I totally resonate with that.

Yeah, yeah. And it's a little different for me because I did have the privilege of seeing women of color ordained as a young child. Like my grandmother was ordained, my mother is ordained.  You know, my cousin, who's my same age, is ordained and leading a big church. But there were, it was in different contexts.

 It was  in a context where  it is a little bit more common. And so I think for me, I was like, this is normal. This is something that happens all the time. But then I turn around and I look at the world around me, specifically the Anglican church in the United States, because globally it's super diverse, but in the United States, I'm like, wow.

No, like, why should I hide behind this idea that it is happening so I don't need to do it when I'm feeling this like deep pull and call?  And I don't know, I lost track because I got so passionate about that answer. But yeah, anyways, I agree with you, like how much, how much more beautiful it is for someone to be able to see that from a young age and have the privilege that I had as a child.

Can you tell me what that ordination process was like? I know it's a little bit standard, it should be standardized across C4SO, but even as different years go by, it's slightly different. So what was your process once you realized, yes, I am called to the priesthood from to the point of ordination?

Yes, so it was, it was long. The first time I inquired, it was really intimidating. So this was like 2015, the first time that I inquired and it was really intimidating. It has changed a lot in 10 years. Let me just tell you that. For the better. It is a lot more streamlined, but I think the first thing that, that I did was express it to the leadership at my local church because I was part of a C4SO church. I was able, and I was already on staff, so I was able to express it to them. One of my mentors, also Tony Barron, has been part of my discernment process for 10 years. And so that initial part and conversation was really easy for me to have within my local church of, all right, I think I'm doing this, guys. I think I'm finally gonna do what you all have been seeing and asking me to do for a while.  

And then after that, it was entering into a really intentional discernment process. And for me was to tell that story was a big part of my discernment process of what is my call to ministry and talking about my journey and my resistance was a big part of the process  as I wrote my spiritual autobiography. And it was really difficult for me to say, okay, now I'm going to send this out to somebody and I don't know who it's going to.  That was a really vulnerable process for me that I had to work through and fight through because I didn't know what was going to be  used or how it was going to be used. But  as I was introduced to the different discernment teams, so, you know, it was the parish discernment committee and then the ordination preparation team. It was one of those things of being surprised. I don't know why I was surprised, but I was surprised that my story was taken as a gift as opposed to something to be scrutinized. 

And that was really great to be able to experience people wanting to be curious about my story in a way that they wanted to encourage me in the process as opposed to nitpicking. You said this, did you really mean that or what? I don't know why I expected something like that, but it was a process. It was hard. I was asked hard questions. I was asked questions that I was surprised by but everything was like an  encouraging tone to take me to that. One thing that I did find difficult that was really hard for me, I won't speak for all Latina women but I'll speak for me,  it was really difficult to push. to say, hey, did you guys forget about me? Because I did kind of have to advocate for myself in the process. There is so much going on within C4SO ,There's so much going on in C4SO that  as well intentioned as everybody is on the team, sometimes things fall through the cracks. And I'm so thankful for Trish Nelson, who was the first person that helped talk to me through this process. Trish Nelson, who was the first person who helped walk me through this process.

So I'm so thankful for people like Trish Nelson, who helped me at some point before Amy Rozko was on there as in her role. But Amy also helped streamline so much of the process of what it would look like and have actual like booklets and checklists for me. I've talked to other people. I don't know. You can speak a little bit. More recently, Julia, into this,  just kind of like, OK, I have that done. Now here's what I need to have next. so being able to have the the the marriage. what do call it? Like all of the assessments that you need to do and all of the paperwork that you need to have done. was just really nice to have all of that in one place.  

And I'm so thankful also for other people that  listened and kind of  encouraged me to keep going. Like there's, and I don't mean to name drop, but I'm just so thankful for these people. like,  Jin Cho, who was like, "We need people like you. We need to have more people of color in C4SO." And Kerry Crockett, who just encouraged me that she says, "Drive your own bus. In ordination, you kind of have to drive your own bus." And it's true, like there are, all these systems in place to help you go through the process, but you do have to put in the work. Like there is a lot of things that because the Dean and  your rectors or whoever is in the process has so many other things going on, you do have to offer that grace and reminders of, I'm still here.  Is there anything else you need from me or is this just something I need to wait on? And that was a big part of the process. And I think it's good hearing it because if you don't hear it, at least for me, if I wouldn't have heard that from other people, I would have said they don't want me. No one wants me in this role. And that's not the truth. Like there is so much goodness that comes from having a variety of people  ordained. And I know it is something that Bishop Todd and Bishop Brian and  Bishop Jeff want to have this goodness and diversity. That it is not that you're not wanted, it's just that you need to make sure to continue following up because everybody is busy. It's just the reality of our society and the life that we live.

This will lead straight to the next question. I know you talked a little bit about this, what would you say are barriers that you encounter towards ordination, either within yourself or outside?

Yeah, I think I'm just so honest the whole time. I have shared a lot about this.  But I think with me, one of the biggest barriers for me was I don't really want to do this. I kept telling myself, you know, there has to be something else for you to do.  And so for me to like deny the fact that I was already doing church ministry work was a huge barrier for me.  Another barrier was setting aside the time to prepare. There is preparation that happens even before the ordination exams. There are things that you need to prepare and set aside time for and take it seriously. So that was a big thing. That was a barrier for me. Another big barrier was waiting for other people. But I think that's also a huge learning process because that's what life in ministry is like, just life in general. You need to often wait for other people. You're not in this process alone. There are so many other people that are involved in the process. And as helpful as everybody was trying to be, it's also a barrier to have to rely and wait on other people. And so that was a big part of Now, know, hindsight is 20-20. I'm like, it's good, it all worked out. But in the moment, as I was waiting for people to answer sometimes, weeks or days or months or whatever that looked like, it was disappointing.  But I think the more I talk to people, I'm like, we should talk about this more, that a lot of the process is waiting for other people and having to nudge on other people. And so...

or nudge other people and remind them like hey, I'm still here. I'm still in the process. Like is there anything else I need to do and  so I appreciate you doing this Juliet for the people that are joining afterwards to say yep, it's hard. It's difficult and there's lots of waiting but that's normal and that's actually good and there's space for you to learn and grow during that time.

Yes, my husband who went through the process of ordination with [The Diocese of] Western Anglicans and then we were in the Diocese of San Joaquin and now we're in C4SO. So he's seen the ordination process in three different dioceses and he always talks about the person who's waiting is like, is this a Holy Spirit telling me you should be patient or did they forget about me? And that seems universal.

Yes, and it's probably a combination of the two things, quite frankly.

Yes, yes.  And so can you just to be transparent about that timeline, from that first conversation with your rector to your ordination to the diaconate, how long did that take?

Yeah, that took probably a little, let's see, probably close to two years for me. From that, like, okay, this is, I'm not gonna not do this. Probably a little bit longer than two years.

I love that so much. And that's a perfect transition for the last question, which is, what would you say to a woman who is thinking about ordination at this time?

 I think I would say this first part to whoever [is seeking ordination]. It is beautiful and hard.  The call to vocational ministry is beautiful and hard. And I'm gonna quote what my grandfather used to say: I've seen enough things in the church to stop me from believing in God, but I've seen enough things in the church that I cannot help but believe in God. And I think that's a beautiful summary of what vocational ministry is. You get to see the ugly, but you get to see the beautiful and the holy. 

And so, if you're thinking about entering into this process, I think that's such an important thing to keep close to your heart that there are very, very, very difficult moments, but there are very, very, beautiful and holy moments in this role and in this job. 

As a woman, I would encourage any woman that's thinking about going into this process to not want to prove anything to anybody except to the Lord because it's so easy to say like, oh, people say I can't do this, but look at me doing it now. It's so easy to turn our role into a political statement. That's not what it is.

 This is a role to serve the Lord first of all, to serve God's people and to serve the world in general. And so I say like, turn your life as my mentor, Tony Barron says,  and make it for the applause of one.

It's so important to keep a level head. This role isn't to prove anybody or to shut anybody up, but rather it is so that my life and what I do and who I serve give glory to God. That's what I would say.

Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing.